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Post by Lisa on Mar 30, 2006 16:21:16 GMT 7
For us females many of aspire to be like the girls who grace our fitness and muscle magazines. For those of us in the know the lean mean physiques they display are not obtainable naturally as they all personally claim to be.
Do you think that this is misleading? What are your personal views on drug use for females??
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Post by yarden on Apr 5, 2006 17:27:51 GMT 7
Sorry this is a little off topic but still related. I recently read an article that blamed male movie stars for making the average man feel bad about his body..I mean WTF!..it's not like once they decided to become an actor the physique fairy came and blessed them with a 6pack.. :S I thought it was the most stupid thing I've ever read.
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Post by Lisa on Apr 5, 2006 17:51:31 GMT 7
Where did you read that?
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Post by yarden on Apr 6, 2006 16:59:01 GMT 7
The Gold Coast Bulletin...AHAHAHAHAH (its a very lame paper)
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Post by Lisa on Apr 6, 2006 17:03:25 GMT 7
What annoys me is these Fitness and Figure girls who claim to be natural and aren't!! You read the magazines and go to the camps they hold and the say the only supplements they use are protein powder, glutamine and sometimes a fat burner ... and the rest!!!
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Post by littlekiwi on Apr 21, 2006 9:09:19 GMT 7
Yes the Fitmess woman are far from natural in the pure sense. Is it good, is it bad? Well I see it as no different from Flo Jo, Marion Jones, Martina Navratralova and other great woman athletes of other sports - their choice and as they are woman it is feminine. Surely woman, not men decide what is femnine? In terms of health, well in excess anything is bad for your health...driving a formula 1 car at 400kms is not healthy and safe so should that be frowned upon?
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Post by andrea on Apr 21, 2006 10:11:02 GMT 7
ha ha good point, but then they have roll cages, helmets and god knows what else making them safer than most of us driving around at 100km???
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Post by Kelly Lynn on May 6, 2006 19:48:32 GMT 7
Drugs arebad...Somany girlssubject themselves to the drugs when it really can beaccomplished with hrd work...
Kelly
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Post by littlekiwi on May 9, 2006 2:05:45 GMT 7
Never quite accepted the argument of taking drugs some how implies athletes don't put in the hard work. In fact, drugs, and by this I assume you mean anabolic steroids, stimulants etc, allow the body to infact be pushed harder and faster than was possible previuosly in a "natural" hormone environment. AAS allow the body to recover faster hence the athlete can train more frequently, lift more intensely, run longer, cycle longer - all this means they can in fact train HARDER than "natural" athletes. It is no different to a turbo in a car. Allows the driver to work the engine harder. Drugs don't work if an athlete sits back on his/her laurels. Also what is peoples definiton of drugs and they are "bad" Do you drink coffee or tea or take a thermo with caffeine in it? Caffeine is a drug...is that bad? If not why isn't it? Because a sports-federation arbitrarily said it wasn't? Do you take panadol, neurofin, panadeine, volatrin for a headache, period pain etc - isn't that taking drugs to help your daily performance? Also AAS are natural hormones derived from the naturally occuring male hromone testosterone. If they are natural derivatives then why are steroids any different from antibiotics derived from naturally occuring penicillin? Also if steroids are deemed "bad" for their cosmetic inenhancement then what of plastic surgery, collagen and botox injections, breast implant and in fact make-up for that matter??? They all artifically improve ones looks and WITH NO EFFORT....at least with performance enhancing drugs one has to do just that ....PERFORM and put effort into it. And finally what of alcohol...the comments drug of them all? Do you not, or have you not, enjoyed a drink to enhance your feelings on a special occassion? Is this not "bad" then as you need a drug, namely alcohol, to really enjoy the occassion? Bottom line is their are so many pro's and con's and one can argue either side. All I can say is "Unless your are without fault, do not be the first to cast the stone" ie "if your shit don't smell like roses, then keep the door closed and air-freshner handy!!!"
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Post by Lisa on May 9, 2006 16:01:49 GMT 7
I have nothing against people that use drugs and in this thread women who use drugs. What I don't like is the women who promote themselves as drug free athletes and tell everyone they don't use when its clearly obvious that they do. Thats misleading especially for the younger ones getting into the sport.
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Post by littlekiwi on May 10, 2006 0:22:44 GMT 7
Is there not varying degrees of drug-free though? If you take synephrine, pseudo-ephedrine and caffeine can you claim to be drug free? In theory "NO". So when you say these girls say they are drug free is the standard anabolic steroids and GH for example? If so, isn't this a double-standard? Drugs are drugs, regardless of potency. Who can genuinely say they are truely "drug-free" ? Also, and all be honest here, if an endoresement contract from a supplement company etc. paying you several tens of thousands of dollars a year to promote their products and a "drug-free" status wouldn't you run with it? After all, you have worked hard all your life to achieve the body you want AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE for all those years and then suddenly someone will pay you thousands to live your dream of making your living from the sport you have loved and worked so hard for - wouldn't that allow you to "redfine" drug-free so you can look-in-the-mirror and not feel guilty as you hold up that can of creatine and say this is the reason for my body? ?? I think the answer if we are all honest is the same as that about masturbation......"99% of the world masturbate and the other 1% are liers"
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Post by chyna on May 13, 2006 23:28:02 GMT 7
Each to their own on this subject, but, I will agree with Lisa. Especially when it is blatently obvious.
As to the masturbation, you're a fool if you say you do, and a liar if you say you don't, hahaha
The myths that surround the use of steroids are as numerous as the truths. The difference being, the truths are easier to find and prove. I've been in BBing 11 years now and met both "natural" and enhanced competitors and users. To me, natural is not taking anything to improve performance, this includes the allowed substances.
Yohimbe and tribbulus can increas natural test levels the desired effect increase serum levels of male hormone is the same as with anabolic steroids. Yet the so called natural athletes using these products seem oblivious to the hypocracy. Even more troubling is the whole class of supplements known as pro hormones, promoted as natural alternative to steroids. While that these substances are but one tiny molecular step away from testosterone, again the effect increase serum levels of male hormone is the same as with anabolic steroids. Further we must recognise the arbitrariness of the law. In some countries steroids are legal available over the counter, while in others even creatine is banned. To further complicate the picture what if testosterone supplementation is lawfully and medically prescribed to restore normal levels by hormal supplementation eg hrt? Can such an athlete still call himself natural? If so, what if the lawful dose administered, restores higher tesosterone levels than would be normal for a man his age eg 50 year old athlete now has 20 year old testosterone levels.Body building is in its method and ideal a contradictory practice. Body building both enhances and diminishes health. It increases body weight, the wear and tear on joints and the risk of both cronic and acute injuries. It relies on a highly regimented nutritional intake in terms of food choice and calorie allowance. In terms of physic health it rewards practitioners with increased self esteem, self discipline, self empowerment but can also be driven by insecurity. In the case of hardcore competitive body building, it is difficult to argue that anything about the sport is natural. It is almost by definition unnatural. While the safety risks of chemically enhancement rampid at todays elite level is regrettable, the line between hard core natural and unnatural body builders is quite fuzzy.
This is not even touching on the technology involved in the actual apparatus we use to build the body eg. various types of machines. Body building involves a systematic manipulation of the physical body with the desire to transform it from its raw state.
This has been paraphrased from an article in Anabolic Extreme called Natural Body Building - Modern Oxymoron, by Rick Collins and Christa Scott- Dixon.
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Post by littlekiwi on May 14, 2006 5:24:44 GMT 7
Nice Chyna! Why be embarrassed/feeling like a fool for admitting to masturbation - that is a natural action which has been stigmatised by the church as "bad' in the same was as being "gay". Geez it's the naughties now (that is year 2000 +) surely we can be open in a dignified way about such things as fetish's,homsexuality, bisexuality and masturbation?
In terms of bodybuilding being unhealthy at a competitive level.....what sport isn't? Top sport is about money NOT health. and you know who is to blame for athletes using drugs?....US!!!!!
I put this to you all:
If you had the choice to watch an Olympics where it was 100% certain all the athletes used no performance enhancing drugs and ran say 10.01sec 100metres versus a totally drug-assisted Olympics where they ran 9.76sec 100m .....which one would you truely tune in to?
Honestly, we are all vouyeurs to some degree and as humans a natural desire to see amazing efforts and so we would tune into the drug-Olympics. As a result TV channels and sponsorship companies see this and send the money the drug-enhanced athletes way. Gatland wo just broke the world mens 100M record yesterday (9.76sec) was rewarded with a US109,000 bonus....hell if we had that sort of cash up we would ALL have a crack at the gear!
Plus BB should not be singled out as the DRUG-SPORT....Pro cycling is rife with drug users, NFL, NBA, Baseball, Rugby, Atletics, Shooting, F1, powerlifting, Olympic Lifting, Horse racing (jockeys plus horses) and so the list goes on.
Bottom line is humans want to run faster, jump higher and to do that will find the "edge" to be the best. Money drives them all the more so in professional sport. We should not judge them and knock-them but do something positive to cange the behaviour......DON'T BUY THE MAGS, WATCH PRO SPORTS or ENCOURAGE OUR CHILDREN TO BE THE BEST.........and who is TRUELY going to do that? NO-ONE...we want to see more recycling of paper yet who prints off an email, trashes a mistaking page instead of using it as note paper or priting an email out the reverse? NO-ONE!
So who out there are the real deceivers and liars....US!
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Post by Bernie on May 14, 2006 11:13:12 GMT 7
I saw a lot of steriod, and GH use while playing football, and that was just college. I don't personally agree with it. But as others have said, it is a nessecary evil that human natrue has brought upon us. Greed, and glutony have infused the human race to a point, that humans are willing to risk life and limb to make an extra buck. But such is life. I have seen and heard many stories of people's lives have been effective negativly by the use of steriods and other such substances. But the way I see it, tis world has been over come by a couple of motto's. 1. If your not cheating your not trying. 2. It's only cheatinf if you get caught. 3. He who dies with the most toys wins. 4.Cheat to win, 5. Money is power. 6. Money is everything. and 7. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.
But I also say, to paraphrase a quote from the Bible....He who is beyond reproach, cast the first stone. I know I am far from perfect, so I cannot judge. Will I hope people I know stop, yes. But I will not condemn them.
But to get back to Lisa's point. It's is the hypocracy that really kills me. If you are using a banned substance, don't proclaim to be natural. I'm not saying run up and down the halls saying you are, just don't claim to be something you aren't
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Post by littlekiwi on May 14, 2006 13:46:48 GMT 7
what if your paied thousands to say you are natural and the suppllements you promote are the reason for your prodigeous amounts of muscle/ Is it any different than a super model claiming she looks 20 years younger because of the skin cream she is paid tousands for? Any diferent from a tennis player claiming his/her new shoes made all the difference? IT'S CALLED SPONSORSHIP and that means LIES!!!!!
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